Celine's CD crashing computers

[cbspock]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/bpihw/20020403/en_bpihw/dion_s_new_cd_crashing_party_for_some_users&printer=1

Dion's new CD crashing party for some users
Wed Apr 3, 1:57 AM ET

By Chris Marlowe


LOS ANGELES (The Hollywood Reporter) --- Celine Dion's latest release is generating heated discussions on Internet message boards. But the subject under fire is not the star's music -- it's that the CD will not play on computer CD drives.

Epic/Sony released "A New Day Has Come" embedded with Key2Audio copy protection in Germany and several other European countries. According to a spokeswoman for Sony Music Entertainment, it is clearly stated on the front of the booklet and on the back of the jewel box that the CD "will not play on a PC or a Mac" in the language of the country in which it is sold. Besides those notices, which the spokeswoman said were readable before purchase, the disc itself bears the same warning.

Should the consumer try to play Dion's CD on a PC or Macintosh (news - web sites), the computer likely will crash.

Some fans believe that the CD is more damaging than that, however. On the German discussion boards at MacFixit, Mac users claim that the CD will not eject using normal methods and that the intentional corruption of the disc's session data could unpredictably affect the drive's firmware. (Firmware is a combination of hardware and software instructions that are permanently embedded in the hardware's controlling chips, such as with a computer's CD-ROM, and altering it could cause permanent damage.)

Sony denied these allegations. "The CD will probably cause a system to crash, but it will not alter anything," the spokeswoman said. "And it won't eject properly, but that's just because the computer has crashed."

"New Day" was released in the United States on Tuesday. Industry watchers expect it to sell more than 500,000 copies by the end of its first week.

More than 10 million discs using Key2Audio CD-audio copy protection have been produced and sold, primarily in Europe. Key2Audio is a product of Sony DADC, a 100% affiliate of Sony Corp (news - web sites). of America headquartered in Austria.

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Well, the US version seems to be clear of it..since I was able to play it and make mp3 files out of it, anyone have problems on their pc?

-Chris

[AINAHS]

This is sure to thrill all her fans along with her going Vegas mode in '03....let's just hope Shania's CD doesn't have this protection.

[Roger]

Well, I downloaded two tracks from her CD. Now normally, if I had downloaded and kept four or more tracks from the same CD, I would go out and buy the CD. If Céline is going to start playing these games, I won't bother.

Roger

[kirppu]

It is Sony as a company that supports this copy protection.
I looked at the Celine album the Monday it came out, and it clearly had the marking "will not play on a Pc". I didn´t get it cause at the moment I can only play cds with my computer, cd player is broke :(

I believe there have been many releases from Sony lately with this feature. Shakira´s album, a popular Finnish band called Bomfunk MC´s, etc.

Not nice to a person like me with only the computer to play records with.. Oh well, I just won´t be buying those albums; the same result with this protection than what it is trying to avoid - people not buying the cds (but downloading them).
What´s the point of this really if the American version etc are not protected. Internet downloading not working across the ocean ? :rolleyes:

kirppu

[Roger]

This is what I was thinking about in my last post.

I don't know how old you are kirppu, but a lot of young people can't afford both a computer and a separate stereo so since they can't do without a computer, that's what they get - a computer. This has to function as their stereo.

Now kirppu your easiest way to get Céline's album is to download it - exactly the opposite of what Sony wants.

Nice move, Sony!


Roger

[Marine]

If this 'Key2' crack is put on other artists CD's, someone will find a way around it within a week, give or take a few.

[kirppu]

Originally posted by Roger
This is what I was thinking about in my last post.

I don't know how old you are kirppu, but a lot of young people can't afford both a computer and a separate stereo so since they can't do without a computer, that's what they get - a computer. This has to function as their stereo.

Now kirppu your easiest way to get Céline's album is to download it - exactly the opposite of what Sony wants.

Nice move, Sony!


Roger

Thank you for your sympathy Roger.

Here´s a thought: As it makes no sense to copy protect some and not all, maybe Europe is the test market at the moment and Sony will then extend this to the American market later on...

I recall BMG trying to use copy protected cds a while back, but due to customer complaints they gave it up (for now).
I am sure the other labels follow carefully how Sony´s campaign is doing..

Well, Marine is right, every copy protection system will be cracked in no time..

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Well, I downloaded two tracks from her CD. Now normally, if I had downloaded and kept four or more tracks from the same CD, I would go out and buy the CD. If Céline is going to start playing these games, I won't bother.

Roger


It's not Celine, it's the record company. So don't shoot the artist.

-Chris

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Marine
If this 'Key2' crack is put on other artists CD's, someone will find a way around it within a week, give or take a few.


It took some teenager in Sweeden or Switzerland 72 hours to break the "complex unbreakable" code used to copy protect DVD's. He did it on two personal computers.

-Chris

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
This is what I was thinking about in my last post.

I don't know how old you are kirppu, but a lot of young people can't afford both a computer and a separate stereo so since they can't do without a computer, that's what they get - a computer. This has to function as their stereo.

Now kirppu your easiest way to get Céline's album is to download it - exactly the opposite of what Sony wants.

Nice move, Sony!


Roger

The American Version is NOT protected, so that will work as well.

Mercury better not play this game with Shania's album. Sony has already announced that all this CD copy protection may render the CD that is protected unplayable in their audio systems.
-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by cbspock



It's not Celine, it's the record company. So don't shoot the artist.

-Chris

Don't tell me that a star of Céline's stature couldn't tell the record company what to do.

Roger

[Roger]

Originally posted by cbspock


The American Version is NOT protected, so that will work as well.

Mercury better not play this game with Shania's album. Sony has already announced that all this CD copy protection may render the CD that is protected unplayable in their audio systems.
-Chris

Great!! Our audio system is Sony!

Chris, that doesn't make sense though. Sony wouldn't encode their CDs in such a way that they are unplayable on their own machines.:confused:

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger


Great!! Our audio system is Sony!

Chris, that doesn't make sense though. Sony wouldn't encode their CDs in such a way that they are unplayable on their own machines.:confused:

Roger


It is because there are no standards to this cd security, so they made a blanket statement to the fact that if they didn't encode it, it won't play.

-Chris

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger


Don't tell me that a star of Céline's stature couldn't tell the record company what to do.

Roger


Notice, that the US version is not protected, so I would guess that it is the Eurpean division that encoded the disc, I am sure that the aritst has no say, or is not aware of it.


-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by cbspock



It is because there are no standards to this cd security, so they made a blanket statement to the fact that if they didn't encode it, it won't play.

-Chris

Sorry. Still confused. Here you are saying if the CD is not encoded, it won't play. Before you were saying it is was encoded, it won't play.

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger


Sorry. Still confused. Here you are saying if the CD is not encoded, it won't play. Before you were saying it is was encoded, it won't play.

Roger

hum....lol

Ok, if the disc is not encoded, it will play. If the disc is encoded by sony, it will play on their equipment, if the disc is encoded by another company, they claim it won't play properly on their audio systems. There is no standard cd encryption between companies, it's like when DVD first came out, there was no standard in place, as a matter of fact, they are still argueing over the DVD guidelines.

-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by cbspock



Notice, that the US version is not protected, so I would guess that it is the Eurpean division that encoded the disc, I am sure that the aritst has no say, or is not aware of it.
-Chris

Well, I guess we'll see how this plays out. As kirppu says, it appears they are using Europe as a test market because it doesn't make sense to copy protect CDs in one market and not another. In other words, the Europeans are the guinea pigs. They will find out from them all the technical effects of encoding. They will also be able to judge the public relations effects. If the public relations effects are bad, I'll bet you the artist would step in to protect her popularity.

The whole exercsie seems futile and wrong-headed to me. The public at large has never had any trouble breaking codes in the past. Now, Lord knows, I'm not a tekkie, but it seems obvious to me that even in the unlikely event that users can't get around the technical restrictions on copying a CD into a computer, someone will just intercept the signal that goes to the speakers and redigitize that.

In short, the only final way to ensure a CD can't be copied is to make it unplayable. LOL

Roger

[cbspock]

I'll try to find the article I read, but here is one debating the issue....
Philips bucks CD copy-protection curbs
Reuters
January 17, 2002, 4:45 PM PT
URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-817929.html
NEW YORK--As major record labels unveil a new breed of CDs designed to prevent Napster-style piracy, Dutch consumer electronics maker Philips, the co-creator of the CD, is refusing to play along.

The new discs now making their way into record stores in the United States and Europe contain countermeasures that prevent playback on computers and, in some unintended cases, normal CD players as well.

"What we've seen so far is troublesome and cumbersome," said Gerry Wirtz, general manager of the Philips copyright office that governs the CD trademark. "We worry (the labels) don't know what they're doing."

The five major record labels--Bertelsmann's BMG Entertainment, Vivendi Universal's Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, EMI Recorded Music and AOL Time Warner's Warner Music Group--hope that by preventing the use of audio CDs in computers people will be unable to "rip," or copy, the music into the easily traded MP3 music format.

In the wake of Napster, the popular music-trading service that allowed consumers to rip and trade MP3s with a minimum of effort, the music industry was forced to investigate ways to limit rampant CD copying.

The controversial new anti-copying technology introduces minute errors to the CDs or changes the location of data on the discs to prevent them from being played back on computers. In theory, most consumer CD players can correct the errors and decipher the structure, unlike the more finicky computer CD drives.

None of the companies have publicly committed to a full-scale introduction of the discs, yet "it sounds like the record labels are still very much behind the idea and are in the process of rolling out an unannounced number" of discs, Jupiter analyst Aram Sinnreich said.

When a CD is not a CD
Philips, because of conformity issues, has warned the record labels that the discs are actually not CDs at all and must bear warning labels to inform consumers.

"We've made sure they would put a very clear warning that you're not buying a compact disc, but something different," Wirtz said. "We've been warning some labels to begin with, and they've adjusted their behavior."

That means labels would also be barred from using the familiar "compact disc" logo that has been stamped on every CD since Philips and Sony jointly developed the technology in 1978.

The five major labels declined to comment.

The attempts to graft protective measures onto the 20-year-old CD technology have had mixed results. Because there are hundreds and perhaps thousands of different CD players on the market, it's likely that some will be unable to read the new discs.

"It's extremely difficult to retrofit the system with copy protection without losing the ability for all CDs to play on all players," Wirtz said.

In one of the first protected CD releases from BMG, Natalie Imbruglia's "White Lilies Island" prompted numerous returns in the United Kingdom. Universal's "More Fast and the Furious" disc release in the United States featured a label warning that the CD would not play on a small number of CD players.

Even when the protection technology works as intended, Wirtz said that normal wear and tear could eventually overwhelm the error correction for the altered discs, causing them to become unreadable within a few years.

"We fear some of these so-called copy-protected CDs will play at first but will eventually show problems and break down," he said.

Machines of the future
Aside from its ownership of the CD trademark, Philips is a major manufacturer of CD burners, and Wirtz said future Philips machines will likely be able to both read and burn the protected CDs--a proposition that may land the company in the crosshairs of the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

The far-reaching DMCA, enacted in 1998, bans any attempt to circumvent copyright protections. Critics complain that the law puts too much power in the hands of media publishers, denying consumers the right to use products bought for personal consumption in whatever ways they see fit.

Philips contends that the protected discs do not fall under the DMCA, since they restrict the playback of music, not copying itself.

"It is not a copy-protection system; it is not doing anything to recorders or copy devices," Wirtz said. "It would not qualify as copy-protection under the DMCA or the new European laws."

However, the broadly worded DMCA bars the circumvention of any method used to protect the property of a copyright holder, and experts on the law said Philips may be treading on dangerous legal ground.

"The record companies would contend that the protection is encryption within the meaning of the DMCA, because it is designed to protect copyrighted material, and originates with the owner of the copyright," said Leonard Rubin, an intellectual property attorney for Gordon & Glickson.

Attempts to circumvent encryption are explicitly barred by the DMCA.

"The way that statute has been interpreted, it's illegal to bypass those types of digital access controls," said Robin Gross, of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a public advocacy group that opposes the law. "All you have to do is attempt to put some kind of technological protection system that controls access to the work--it doesn't matter how effective it is."

Story Copyright © 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved
http://zdnet.com.com/2102-1103-817929.html


-Chris

[cbspock]

Universal Rolls Out CD Copy Protection

Vivendi Universal has plans to begin releasing CDs uncapable of being copied to a PC, leaving many music listeners wondering what kind of control they'll have left over their music...


Posted Monday, October 01, 2001 @ 01:27am by Nick Rivers


Universal Music Group has recently announced it's October plans for issuing CDs which will include software that prevents them from being ripped and encoded to a user's PC.
Representing such successful artists as U2, Sheryl Crow and Eminem, Vivendi Universal hopes to prohibit what it calls piracy and what others in the music industry say "almost amounts to mass distribution" of copied CDs.

This announcement follows Universal's aquisition of MP3.com and an extensive legal battle with file sharing service Napster. According to Vivendi vice chairman, Edgar Bronfman, "With the extent of piracy and the extent of CD (copying) that's going on, we have no choice but to protect our artists and our rights holders."

Without revealing how the technology would work or with whom it was being developed, Bronfman claimed the CDs would be playable in both CD-ROMs and conventional CD players.

Other labels have also made plans to copy protect CDs, including BMG, EMI and more recently Sony Music, who have given copy protected CDs to various European radio stations of a recent Michael Jackson single. Sony says they've made no plans for a similar move in the US as of yet.

Will this attempt at copyright control be a wise move on the part of the music industry? Many argue that Fair Use is being denied to consumers and music enthusiasts who would like to make copies of their albums for personal use. Additionally, will copy protection measures such as these really stand the test of those who consistently succeed in finding ways around secure technologies?

http://www.soundhub.com/?a=gkml1r


As you know, Mercury is owned by Universal. Roger, I think you are right, this will have the reverse effect on what they are trying to stop.


-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by cbspock
Universal Rolls Out CD Copy Protection
As you know, Mercury is owned by Universal. Roger, I think you are right, this will have the reverse effect on what they are trying to stop.
-Chris

In the long run, after many snafus as a result of companies trying to copy-protect CDs, I feel they will eventually accept there has been a paradigm shift. They can no more prevent copying than we could disinvent the atomic bomb. In each case, everyone must learn to live with the new reality.

Society has not even begun to realize the full implications of computerization and the internet. With the invention of the printing press in the 15th century, the era of the mass dissemination of information began. Without that, there could have been no reformation, no renaissance, no industrial revolution. With the invention of records, movies and TV, other forms of communication could be mass produced and disseminated to potentially everyone. However, in each case, the control of the means of mass communication rested in the hands of the elite. It takes money to buy a printing press, to print in great quantity, and to develop a distribution system. With control of the means of communication came great wealth to those who controlled them. This is just as true in the record business as in any other form of mass communication.

Suddenly and for the first time, private individuals now have the capacity to disseminate information of all kinds (print, music, movies) at negligeable cost. You bet the elites who used to have a stranglehold of this distribution are going to react. This includes totalitarian governments like China who can no longer control what people are exposed to. I believe they are all doomed to fail.

Back before music could be recorded, performers only got paid if they performed. They couldn't perform just once for a recording and get paid for it for the rest of their lives. I don't think we will quite revert to that. Most people lack the interest and discipline to videotape everything from TV for viewing without commercials at a more convenient time. In similar fashion, most people lack the interest and discipline to make their own CDs. The music industry will survive but on a slightly lesser scale. Music companies like Universal and huge stars like Shania will make fewer tens of millions of dollars. Lesser known performers could actually benefit. Since most CD copying will always be done by young people, music companies may choose to gear their music to those people who actually buy the CDs and give us a more mature, better quality selection - not altogether a bad thing.

Just my opinion.

Roger

[cbspock]

Roger, you make some excellent points. One other benefit is artists will be able to go right to the people who buy their music, as computers and the internet get faster, the record companies could get circumvented. Look how many newspapers have adapted to the web, they all have online editions. The record companies will either adapt or go out of business. The way artists get paid will probably have to change, they could always get more money upfront, instead of being paid based on sales, or airplay.


-Chris

[kirppu]

hmm, where to begin.. ;)

Europe has a big problem with the pirate cds coming mostly from eastern Europe. So that is probably the main reason the copy protection has been introduced here first.

A couple of issues raised in the articles Chris posted; unfortunately I am not able to share my views on those.

However, I can say that there is a protection that allows the cd to be heard in computers, but not copied, maybe Universal will use that or similar?

The main problem here seems to be that all main record companies use their own systems, untill they agree to use a certain standard (if they decide to go ahead with the protection programs full speed), the customer will lose. Big time.

The last couple of posts had some good points and a different angle to this. Thank you for your thoughts, very inspiring :GL

kirppu

[Jud]

Not just eastern Europe has the piracy problems. Here in Israel there is a "pirate-factory" for everything.
About cds, if a normal cd cost 60-80 shekel, in East Jerusalem you can buy a pirate-copy for 15-25 Shekels.

Now, I have one another point, that no one really goes into it. One of the main problems in my eyes, that the same factory make the cd's, and also the cd-players, and cd-writers, like the above mentioned Phillips. So they have a doubled-interesting, which avoid them to try and find a working piracy-preventing system. And what the easiest for them, than blaming the music industry, and hiding their own interests?

[kirppu]

Thank you Jud for that point of view.
Let´s think about dvd players. Sony´s players were "famous" for not playing cd-r . But they have made a model now that plays them too! It´s a bit more expensive than the basic model, but nevertheless...:rolleyes: