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Interview: Staying On The Pathway To Platinum
Producers Byron Gallimore and Mark Wright


By David M. Ross, 10/1/2004

Successful multi-platinum record producers hold a special place in Nashville’s music society. Like the label head or superstar artist, they are top drawer attractions that wield power and influence. Like ancient medicine men they are imbued with almost mystical powers to create and bestow fame. At every turn there are people that depend upon the producer’s goodwill for their livelihood: publishers see them as the gatekeeper to getting a song cut; label heads rely on the producer to safeguard their CEO seat by making music that will sell, sell, sell; and the artist/producer relationship is so complex it likely needs its own literary work. Beneath it all however, the producer is also mutually dependent on all the above parties. The music business is a cruel master, continually judging participants on current achievements. A multi-platinum record maker who stumbles can lose his/her footing and descend earthward—from the heavens of Nashville Royalty, surrounded by an endless court of admirers—to the abyss of semi-retirement.

In today’s marketplace, producer giants command advances of $3,000-$5,000 per side (sometimes more) plus get royalties of 3.5%-4% of the CD’s suggested retail price. Simplifying a bit and using an $18.98 list price for our example, a producer reaps a $400,000 payday for a platinum effort and $800,000 for double platinum! (Of concern to producers is the shrinking margin on record sales—and possibly producer revenues—due to lowering suggested list prices.)

With royalties pouring in, the hit producer needs to invest. Wise men say invest in something you understand, so most successful producers put money into publishing. In fact, it would be pretty difficult (if not impossible) to locate a platinum producer in Nashville that doesn’t have publishing interests.

Byron Gallimore and Sony Executive VP A&R Mark Wright are examples of Nashville producers who have taken different paths, but achieved consistent and artistic success. Both have earned Music Row’s Producer of the Year Award. Gallimore worked his way into the winner’s circle as an independent, shepherding platinum and multi-platinum artists such as Tim McGraw, Faith Hill and Jo Dee Messina. Wright reached the precious metal goal posts from inside the corporate environment, doing stints at RCA, MCA and Sony and helping to bring success to artists such as Gretchen Wilson, Brooks & Dunn, Lee Ann Womack and Montgomery Gentry.

Interviews for the following Q&A format were done separately and pieced together, after the fact. Because of the political considerations inherent in balancing relations between artists, publishers, labels, managers and more, producers are often reticent to speak in a public forum, especially a print interview. However, I believe you’ll agree that both men were extremely forthcoming and insightful...

MR: After all these years behind the glass, what continues to excite you about producing?
Mark Wright: It’s the process. I’m a musician/songwriter at heart. It’s just trying to put everybody in their best light, to make the song shine like it should and have the artist doing what they do best. I love playing a song back and watching a songwriter grin ear-to-ear. Hopefully, if the musicians, writers and artists are happy, then the public will be too. Everyday is different and that’s what I love about it.
Byron Gallimore: The art form of making records is what I love and am totally addicted to—just trying to get better and learn more.

MR: Is it accurate to say that in some ways the producer is like a sonic tailor who custom fits each client? Are some artists easier to work with than others?
Gallimore: It’s true you work better with some artists than others, but they all have a vision, a strong idea of what they want to do and what they want to be. The best thing an artist can do is to convey that early, because it cuts to the chase and saves maybe working a couple of sessions and finding that the artist may not be 100% happy with what you are doing. Country radio has to be able to play the music. So if you’re pushing too far you may be questioned at times. Most of the labels have been really really great in giving the artists an opportunity to try to show what they want to do. And the more successful an artist is, the more room the labels give them because they have proven themselves. The key is trying to figure out what each artist needs and how to help them. A lot of times being a producer means taking more and different roles than anybody might think. It’s not about cutting my record on them, it’s trying to help them figure how to be the best that they can be. You have to pull from these artists to help them maximize the situation. Sometimes it involves a lot of politics and some artists let go of the reins a little more than others. I’ve been blessed to have a lot of people that want me to be involved in their careers and allow us to do the things they trust us to do.
Wright: A “sonic tailor” is a good analogy. And there definitely is a range of methods we use to get the job done. Sometimes the artist knows exactly where they want to go and you just help them get there. Gretchen Wilson knew what/who she was, for example. Brooks and Dunn are veterans in the studio, like having a trio producing all together and working with your own peer group. So there are times I’m a facilitator for somebody else’s vision, and also times that I get to take my vision and run with it. I enjoy both, actually. In this position you have to be a good listener and be flexible. At first there were times when I wasn’t so flexible, it was “my-way-or-the-highway” and everything started sounding like Mark Wright records with someone else singing on them. I achieved a lot more success by being flexible, letting the project determine where we should go. Some of it just comes from growing up—you can’t be a boy genius when you are a grown man.

MR: According to publishers and songwriters, Nashville producers seem to be cutting more songs than ever before—sometimes upwards of 20 for a 10-song CD. Do you see that happening and what are the issues from your perspective?
Wright: We’re trying not to make that happen here at Sony. We like to be sure of our songs. I’d rather spend the money re-recording a track on a song we know we love as opposed to deciding the record by committee. These guys like three songs, another likes those four, someone else wants this track—that’s bull****. The artist and producer ought to agree on what to do and then go cut it. People searching and cutting 20-30 songs, could do it in pre-production mode, instead of master double/triple scale. Most people doing it however, are big superstars wanting to try a different producer or band. It’s their own money—they’re obviously a recouped artist and in a royalty earning position—so spending $700,000-$800,000 that way may be enjoyable to them. It is tough on the publishers, but honestly they know which artists are cutting that way. If an artist is willing to spend $35-$40,000 to cut their song to consider using it, publishers should be willing to wait because if used, it will be a big ticket item. It’s not like they are holding it for an unknown. It is all about risk/reward. More than likely it’s a great song and the day you know it’s not on the record...well, you’ll probably get it cut the next week.
Gallimore: What I’ve seen through the years is that the more success an artist has on the previous record the more rope they get on the next one. If they want to cut more sides the labels usually support them. Another reason a label might cut extra tracks is to have them to release on the artist in later years, when they are no longer at their record label. Now with new artists it’s quite different. They might be planning on ten or eleven sides and allow one more, but it will be cut off there. The label is in an experimental mode with any new artist. They believe in them and want to support them, but obviously there has to be a limit during that going-to-Vegas stage. Anyway, you should be able to bring in 2 or 3 sides out of ten or eleven on a new artist that the label can make work at radio. Sometimes publishers get an artist like Tim McGraw who chooses to include 16 songs on his record. But not every artist can afford to pay those extra publishing bills and believes so strongly in the songwriters. For publishers, it is like going to Vegas and deciding whether to play with $5 bills or quarters. When they hold songs for bigger artists publishers are aware the artist may be cutting more sides and their odds of making the record may be different, but that is part of the game. They can choose to pitch to those artists or not. But it is important to understand that making a record is a journey for the artist that sometimes involves some experimentation.

...

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Signature on holiday.

MR: Everyone is trying to cut costs in today’s corporate climate. Do you envision a pullback in recording costs?
Gallimore: Costs remain consistent overall if we use in-town players and the facilities and situations we historically have. There may be ways to do some of the editing work differently, but there are certain costs you just can’t eliminate. Is it possible to go cut a record another way? Yes, but sometimes after experimenting and trying to save costs you end up with a project that is only 90% there and not up to snuff. Some of the studios have backed off a little bit, but they need a decent fee to keep those doors open. I just hope they aren’t going to get run out of business because of everyone pushing for lower rates. We certainly need the huge tracking rooms to cut the type of records we cut.
Wright: Country records are getting back to being simple and rootsy. If that continues, it should help bring costs down over the next few years.

MR: A producer has so many people to please. The artist, the label, the manager, radio....and of course himself. How do you deal with all the pressure?
Wright: It’s something you just get used to in this business, part of the gig. I’ve been doing it professionally since I was 18 years old and always tried to beat what we’ve done, not just stay comfortable. But you can’t sit around and worry, “I’m going to die if I lose this.” You do your very best and give them everything you’ve got and [laughs] just pray your blood sugar is right that day. I’m not going to tell you I don’t have bosses, cause everyone does. The artist is the ultimate boss and you do have to keep the label happy. But at the same time I have to leave the studio knowing I believe in what we just did, that I’m contributing something creatively. Sometimes, I think you need to take a bunch of psychology courses if you want to be a record producer.
Gallimore: You know, it’s funny, I’ve never been smart enough to think of it as pressure, only as an art form. I guess I enjoy it so much I just feel confident we will come up with something. If you beat on the negative it can drive away all the creativity. But I’ve never known the labels to push the major artists with deadlines. Nashville historically has operated on a little quicker timetable than some formats, often they’d like to see an album per year. But we’ve been blessed to not have to do that. Anyway, I’m such a workaholic, I really get unhappy if I’m not working [laughs], so I probably need to see a therapist.

MR: Closing comments?
Wright: We are one of the few formats that didn’t computerize to the wall, but we’re getting there and I think we need to back off. The more live it sounds, the better. It’s called Pro Tools not Pro Necessity. It’s a tool. The spirit of what made Nashville great is coming back and it needs to be felt in the music. What makes this genre so real is that it is soulful. I’m not trying to say I’ve got it all figured out, just that there was a certain element that came with this town when we got here, and we don’t need to run it off. There’s got to be some reverence for the history.
Gallimore: I just appreciate so much the artists I work with and the record labels have all been so good to us. So for me, it’s a thank you for all that they have provided and opportunities they’ve given us.

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Signature on holiday.

and the artist/producer relationship is so complex it likely needs its own literary work.

unless you are Shania and Mutt, and the communications are probably near telepathic..lol


A multi-platinum record maker who stumbles can lose his/her footing and descend earthward—from the heavens of Nashville Royalty, surrounded by an endless court of admirers—to the abyss of semi-retirement.


and a producer like Mutt is seen as a "hired gun" by the musical snobs on the row.

In today’s marketplace, producer giants command advances of $3,000-$5,000 per side (sometimes more) plus get royalties of 3.5%-4% of the CD’s suggested retail price. Simplifying a bit and using an $18.98 list price for our example, a producer reaps a $400,000 payday for a platinum effort and $800,000 for double platinum! (Of concern to producers is the shrinking margin on record sales—and possibly producer revenues—due to lowering suggested list prices.)

and this is why Shania and Mutt are so despised on the Row, they get a majority of the "Ka-ching", from Production, to songwriting to backing vocals, to singing, etc.


Byron Gallimore and Sony Executive VP A&R Mark Wright are examples of Nashville producers who have taken different paths, but achieved consistent and artistic success. Both have earned Music Row’s Producer of the Year Award. Gallimore worked his way into the winner’s circle as an independent, shepherding platinum and multi-platinum artists such as Tim McGraw, Faith Hill and Jo Dee Messina. Wright reached the precious metal goal posts from inside the corporate environment, doing stints at RCA, MCA and Sony and helping to bring success to artists such as Gretchen Wilson, Brooks & Dunn, Lee Ann Womack and Montgomery Gentry.


In other words, they are a bunch of Mutt wannabees, since most of the artists mentioned are "Shania clones". Mutt still has out produced them, these guys are amatuers. Compare that list of "success" to AC/DC, Def Leppard, The Cars, Celine Dion, Britney Spears, Shania Twain, the Corrs to name a few. Mutt has TWO albums on the Top 10 best seller list.



Most of the labels have been really really great in giving the artists an opportunity to try to show what they want to do.

Yeah, right.


Wright: A “sonic tailor” is a good analogy. And there definitely is a range of methods we use to get the job done. Sometimes the artist knows exactly where they want to go and you just help them get there

Interesting, how they use that as an attack on Mutt, but here it is an okay term.


MR: According to publishers and songwriters, Nashville producers seem to be cutting more songs than ever before—sometimes upwards of 20 for a 10-song CD. Do you see that happening and what are the issues from your perspective?
Wright: We’re trying not to make that happen here at Sony. We like to be sure of our songs. I’d rather spend the money re-recording a track on a song we know we love as opposed to deciding the record by committee.

So half the songs are wasted. They are cutting more songs most not that good just to get product on the shelf, instead of taking their time to make good music.


Wright: Country records are getting back to being simple and rootsy. If that continues, it should help bring costs down over the next few years.

So they want to cut corners and save money at the expense of the sound of the recording, that is CHEAP! A trend based on cost cutting. Is that what we are really seeing?

Wright: We are one of the few formats that didn’t computerize to the wall, but we’re getting there and I think we need to back off. The more live it sounds, the better. It’s called Pro Tools not Pro Necessity. It’s a tool. The spirit of what made Nashville great is coming back and it needs to be felt in the music. What makes this genre so real is that it is soulful. I’m not trying to say I’ve got it all figured out, just that there was a certain element that came with this town when we got here, and we don’t need to run it off. There’s got to be some reverence for the history.


Now that is the most short sighted and stupidest thing I ever read. Pro-tools does not make it sound "less live". So, they like recording the old way, so they have an inferior product? Analog to Digital sounds bad, Digital to Digital is the best way to record. it picks up everything.

and this last paragraph shows why they are producing country records because of their shortsighted closed minds. The worst part it is a blatant attempt to kiss up!


-Chris

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Shania's Place
Shania: often imitated, never duplicated!!

"...Living, Loving, Laughing and Dreaming....."-Shania Twain