OT: Pair Skating

[cbspock]

Hey the Canadian team was really good. When they fell at the end, it fit the program, they should have acted like it.


-Chris

[Roger]

They are favoured to win gold according to the experts. At this moment they are second. As long as they stay in the top 3 before the free skate, the gold can still be theirs.

Roger

[Roger]

Ina and Zimmerman were great! They are not quite there technically but I was bowled over by their artistic effect. That is always what impresses me the most. They were by far the most innovative. I loved their choice of Pink Floyd for their music too. I just hope they don't suffer the same fate as Toller Cranston of Canada a generation ago. He was so far ahead of the rest of the skating world artistically the judges didn't know how to rate him so he never did win the gold.

Roger

[cbspock]

Roger, the Canadians got screwed over by the judges!!!! That performance was definitely GOLD!!! The Russians made 4 mistakes.

If the Russians were honorable, they would give the gold medals to the Canadians.


Pairs skating is DEFINITELY FIXED!! Next time they should bribe a judge like the Russians obviuosly did. GRRR!!!!! Notice it was the Russia, Poland and China, that screwed Canada over.:mad: :mad: :mad:



-chris

[Roger]

It seems everyone who saw it agrees that Salé and Pelletier should have won. I think so too.

Let me express what may be the only words of sympathy for the judges. All through high school I was a gymnastics judge. Along with the other judges at a meet I had to stand after each contestant had finished and hold up the mark I had given. It happened quite often that the marks we gave were unpopular with the crowd. The problem was usually that the crowd didn't know which moves were difficult and which were easy. Sometimes a perfect performance on a simple routine had to be given second place to slightly flawed performance of a much more difficult routine. Tonight Salé and Pelletier were technically perfect but their routine was slightly less difficult. On the other hand, Salé and Pelletier were superior artistically. This was a much closer call than most people realize. In the end however I truly believe the judges went the wrong way.

Roger

[cbspock]

Reaction to the travesty at the olympics on AOL messageboard has been pretty negative toward the Russians...here is one of the funnier ones....

FROM AOL msgboard....
There was a security breach at Salt Lake City--Taliban members disguised as ice skating judges showed up. What a travesty--the judges handed this pair the silver that they didn't earn in 1998 and now the gold. The Canadians earned the gold. The total lack of integrity is very disheartening--especially in a time we desparately need integrity in our officials. These judges let the whole world down tonight--they and
their families ought to be ashamed. They have diminished the sport of figure skating and broken the hearts of the citizens of the world. How sad!
-------------------------------------
Here is another....
I fully agree. 'Travesty' is an excellent word to describe the judging of this event. As far as I am concerned the integrity of the sport is seriously jeopardized by this sort of judging. The athlets are required to take serious pledges about doping and the true spirit of sport. They are monitored and tested and whatever other hoops they have to jump through to proove they are
serious athletes and honest competetors. Yet they have to compete before people who have no business being in the same environment with them. As far as I am concerned this calls into question the very values for which the olympic games stand. I for one will tune out any further ice skating because the judging stinks. If this chronic problem is not resolved the gamse will fall into utter political nonsense. Only devoted young, hard working, and
dedicated athletes suffer. It is a shame.

TKHLtd
----------------------------------


-Chris

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
It seems everyone who saw it agrees that Salé and Pelletier should have won. I think so too.

Let me express what may be the only words of sympathy for the judges. All through high school I was a gymnastics judge. Along with the other judges at a meet I had to stand after each contestant had finished and hold up the mark I had given. It happened quite often that the marks we gave were unpopular with the crowd. The problem was usually that the crowd didn't know which moves were difficult and which were easy. Sometimes a perfect performance on a simple routine had to be given second place to slightly flawed performance of a much more difficult routine. Tonight Salé and Pelletier were technically perfect but their routine was slightly less difficult. On the other hand, Salé and Pelletier were superior artistically. This was a much closer call than most people realize. In the end however I truly believe the judges went the wrong way.

Roger


Roger, the Canadian performance was way more difficult, they did more complicated combinations, they also skated with a fluidity the Russians did not have.


THE JUDGES SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR STEALING CANADIAN GOLD!!!


They are not even my team, and I am SOOO TICKED!!!!

-Chris

[cbspock]

Show your support for Shania's fellow Canadians....
David Pelletier and Jamie Sale, Canada


VOTE!!!!
http://www.nbcolympics.com/x/f/frame.htm?u=/news/705138.asp&s=nbco



Show your disgust for the judges.


So far here are the results....

Who do you think should have won the gold medal in pairs figure skating?
* 4541 responses

David Pelletier and Jamie Sale, Canada
95%
Anton Sikharulidze and Yelena Berezhnaya, Russia
5%

-Chris

[Roger]

Well, I am heartened by all the support you Americans have shown us. I won't get into a technical discusson of the relative difficulties of the two routines. Actually,"fluid" is the word I used to Kay to describe the Russians as we watched them. In the end though they should not have won.

Actually this was a disastrous day for Canada at the Olympics. Jeremy Wotherspoon fell at the start of the 500m speed skate. He had been favoured to win the gold. Ironically, this guy never falls - is known for his reliability and consistency.

And now this.:(

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Well, I am heartened by all the support you Americans have shown us. I won't get into a technical discusson of the relative difficulties of the two routines. Actually,"fluid" is the word I used to Kay to describe the Russians as we watched them. In the end though they should not have won.

Actually this was a disastrous day for Canada at the Olympics. Jeremy Wotherspoon fell at the start of the 500m speed skate. He had been favoured to win the gold. Ironically, this guy never falls - is known for his reliability and consistency.

And now this.:(

Roger


Roger I don't see how you can give them a pass or rationalize their win, I am not Canadian and it was a BLATENTLY STOLEN MEDAL, no ifs ands or buts

YOU GUYS WERE ROBBED!!!!!

I can only imagine what your morning shows and papers will read tomorrow morning. I hope the Canadians are just as outraged over this as the Americans are. The NBC commentators, Scott Hamilton and I forget the woman's name..were totally embarrased for the sport tonight.


This does not bode well for our singles skaters, Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes (who is from Long Island) next week, hopefully the judges will be impartial.

-Chris

[Roger]

Hey Chris, I have said I disagreed with the judges. But I know from personal experience how tough it is to judge athletic events. As a judge you can't win. If you pick the crowd favourite, you get no kudos because it was "obvious" who the winner was. If you don't pick the crowd favourite, everyone comes down on you.

Look for more drama tonight in the short program of the men's figure skating competition. Elvis Stojko is Canada's 7-time national champion. (Yes, Elvis was named after the King of Rock and Roll.) This is his fourth and last Olympics (he is 29 - elderly in this sport). He has won the silver medal twice but missed the gold because he has always been injured at Olympics time. This is his last kick at the Olympics can. International experts underestimate him based on his past Olympics performances. But this time he is uninjured. He has a nothing to lose mentality and I have never seen him more relaxed prior to competition. He skates last tonight. I rate his chances for the gold as very good.

Who knows? Maybe after last night the judges will figure they owe Canada something. Ha!!

Roger

[FV]

http://www.kawartha.net/~bobcom/snoopy2s.gif

[cbspock]

Originally posted by FV
http://www.kawartha.net/~bobcom/snoopy2s.gif


I give snoopy a 6.0!!!! , but the Russians still get the gold. lol:p

-Chris

[Roger]

Wow! I can't believe the furor caused by the judging controversy as it is now being called. Every radio station, every TV news channel here is full of it. The tape of their perfomrance is being constantly replayed. The International Skating Union has announced it will launch an inquiry into the conduct of the judges. Rosie O'Donnell (sp?) is arranging to have Jamie and David on her show. Canadians on the street in Salt Lake City are being stopped all the time by Americans who want to express their support. As upsetting as this incident has been, it really has brought out the best in so many people but in no one more than in Jamie and David themselves who have shown enormous class and dignity. They have put it behind them now. They and everyone else know they are the winners. They will go on to compete at the World's by the way. I wonder if the same judges will be there too?

The Olympic organization has lost a lot of respect.

Roger

[cbspock]

Like I said in my email to you. Jamie and Dave have shown a lot of class. I saw them on the TODAY show this morning, and they came off as two classy people. In past years the judging has been called into question for "questionable calls" , but it was not so obvious as it was last night. It calls into question the entire judging system at the Olympics.

Oh, I heard on my way home that the Canadian Olympic committee has demanded an investigation be launched.


I really hope that Jamie and Dave tour with some professional ice show, I would really like to see them skate live.



-Chris

[Roger]

Jamie and David will be on the Jay Leno show tonight.

Roger

[Roger]

Good may come of all this. Ironically, Jamie Salé and David Pelletier are getting far more attention outside of Canada than they would ever have had if they had won the gold medal. They are becoming household names in the richest market in the world. Unlike the US champions, Canadian champions have usually not made all that much money when they turn pro because even though they may have won numerous world's competitions they are just not well known in the big US market.

With every talk show Jamie and David go on, the Olympic organization and the International Skating Union get another black eye. Maybe, finally, as a result of all this bad publicity, they will clean up the judging in future competitions.

Roger

[Roger]

Attached is a pic of Jamie and David in their moment of splendour.

Roger

[cbspock]

What a way to kill a sport!!!!!




I think this sums it up......
ROBBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/0bbd9f95ea485d/www.msnbc.com/news/1373826.jpg





and..total class yesterday on the TODAY show....

http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/db5b8aafa831ff/www.msnbc.com/d/v/130x100/tdy_couric_skaters_020212.jpg

To get more of the story....
http://www.msnbc.com/news/705743.asp
Seems there WAS some tinkering going on!!!!


"Young skaters, ask why should I skate?"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/705851.asp

Also, the people are on the side of the Canadians..
http://www.nbcolympics.com/x/f/frame.htm?u=/news/705138.asp


Who do you think should have won the gold medal in pairs figure skating?
* 242369 responses

David Pelletier and Jamie Sale, Canada
96%
Anton Sikharulidze and Yelena Berezhnaya, Russia
4%
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Axel of Evil"
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/story?id=1330977
Sources say Russian and French judges made deal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Cynthia Faulkner
ESPN.com


SALT LAKE CITY -- Sources within the International Skating Union have told ESPN/ABC Sports figure skating reporter Christine Brennan that a collaboration between the French and Russian judges helped spark the controversy that has the skating world and the Winter Olympics in an uproar.


The Canadian Olympic delegation on Tuesday requested an investigation into why Russians Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze won the gold medal when many observers feel that Canadians Jamie Sale and David Pelletier were more worthy.

Brennan, one of the world's leading authorities on figure skating, says that reliable sources within the ISU told her that a collaboration between the French and Russian judges did happen.

"When (figure skating officials) investigate, I think they're going to find out that the French judge worked a deal with the Russians," Brennan said.

"There's absolutely no doubt that the Canadians should have won. Their 'Love Story' program was just marvelous. The performance was perfect.

"The Russian pair made small errors including a small mistake on one jump. To me it's clear. It should have been crystal clear for the Canadians."

Brennan said she watched the tapes again and the Canadians' performance only gets better.

"I was shocked the moment I saw the scores and I'm still shocked," she said. "I ran into three international judges, all of them judging at the Olympics, within three minutes after the competition. 'This is an outrage,' they said in unison. I've never seen judges come up to a reporter -- as opposed to going away from them -- and say this is an outrage."

Until Monday, only a few diehard figure skating fans in North America knew who Sale and Pelletier were. That's all changed.

"Their agent told me he's had about a hundred calls," Brennan said. "I'm guessing they are now a household name, which never would have been if they'd won the gold medal with no controversy. I would imagine that they became millionaires in the last 24 hours. The sympathy factor is huge."

The scandal already is drawing comparisons to figure skating's most famous pair of all -- Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. The story could grow if the United States were to get involved because it's conceivable that if Sale and Pelletier should have won gold, Americans Kyoko Ina and John Zimmerman could have won bronze, Brennan said.

"This is really starting to remind me of Tonya and Nancy, but it's not there yet," Brennan said. "There's something about this that's starting to build and there's the sense that the pace with which it's starting is like it was with Tonya and Nancy. Now there's an investigation and the story has legs."

Cynthia Faulkner is the Olympics editor for ESPN.com.


-Chris

[cbspock]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1330439


The top two pairs, with how they were ranked in the long program by judges and their scores from the nine judges.
1, Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze, Russia, 1.0.
1 5.8 5.9 11.7
1 5.8 5.9 11.7
2 5.7 5.9 11.6
1 5.8 5.9 11.7
1 5.7 5.9 11.6
2 5.7 5.8 11.5
1 5.8 5.9 11.7
2 5.8 5.8 11.6
2 5.7 5.9 11.6

2, Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, Canada, 2.0.
2 5.8 5.8 11.6
2 5.9 5.8 11.7
1 5.8 5.9 11.7
2 5.8 5.8 11.6
2 5.8 5.8 11.6
1 5.9 5.9 11.8
2 5.8 5.8 11.6
1 5.9 5.9 11.8
1 5.8 5.9 11.7

Judges -- Marina Sanaia, Russia; Jiasheng Yang, China; Lucy
Brennan, United States; Marie Reine Le Gougne, France; Anna
Sierocka, Poland; Benoit Lavoie, Canada; Vladislav Petukhov,
Ukraine; Sissy Krick, Germany; Hideo Sugita, Japan.



What's wrong with this picture???

Also, our media here in the USA is starting to draw comparisons to the Nancy Kerigan loss to Oksana Biule as well as the Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerigan scandal.

-Chris

[Roger]

Yesterday Jamie Salé worried that the controversy would adversely affect the judging of other Canadian skaters. This has come to pass. Elvis Stojko did his short program. He made only two errors: one, a poor landing from a quad (but he did make the quad) and two, he took one second too long to do a later jump. According to tradition, he should have been penalized .2 (or .3 if you consider being a second late on a jump to be an error). But with some judges (guess which ones?) giving him only 4.9 or 5.0 for technical merit, Elvis must have been penalized .7 or .8. In other words, he was rated as if he had failed the quad! Now it will be almost impossible for him to win any kind of medal, let alone the gold. I don't think Elvis was good enough to beat Yagudin but I do think he should have had a good chance at the silver.

There will be no second chance for Elvis. This is his last chance at the Olympics. Four years ago, he disregarded advice from his doctors and competed at Nagano with a severe groin injury. He was in obvious agony. It was the bravest performance I have ever seen. He won the silver medal. No one doubts that he would have won the gold if he had been healthy. Doctors then said he could never compete again but Elvis is tough. This is a guy who has a black belt in one of the martial arts and who races motorbikes in the summer. He confounded everyone by somehow getting over his injury and is now healthy. I know Elvis will go ahead with his long program just to show he can't be discouraged. He, unlike the judges, has the true Olympic spirit.

To end on a brighter note: if Jamie and David had won the gold as they should have, they could have looked forward to an annual income when they turn pro in the range of $250,000-$300,000US but of course only for a few years. Make hay while the sun shines. Now this pair are known to the US media thanx to this judging controversy, their potential income has gone up almost ten times!!

Roger

[cbspock]

Before the olympics I couldn't tell you who they were. I knew of Elvis Stojko, and that is about it. Yeah, our media is in love with the pairs skaters, and they have swept America, more so than our pairs team has. Guess we just don't like it when someone gets screwed over so obviuosly on national tv.



-Chris

[Roger]

The French judge has reportedly said she was compelled by her federation to vote in favour of the Russian pair. There will be a news conference on this at 1 p.m. EST.

As to why she would have been ordered to do this, there has been speculation already that the French wanted to avenge the loss of their dance team to the Canadians at the Grand Prix in December.



Roger

[cbspock]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/706322.asp
http://a799.ms.akamai.net/3/799/388/a403447a908329/www.msnbc.com/news/1373741.jpg
David Pelletier tries to console partner Jamie Sale after their scores were posted following their performance in the pairs free skate Monday night. The Canadian pair won the silver medal.

Integrity gets iced in pairs robbery
Only incompetence or politics can explain what happened


The US media is sure running with this story!!!!
THERE ARE JUST two possible explanations for what happened in the Olympic pairs competition: incompetence, or politics. The public needs no “internal assessment” by the International Skating Union to understand what happened. When the camera panned the panel of nine judges, the picture was worth the proverbial thousand words. The judges in this sport always have borne more than a passing resemblance to the suspicious cast of the board game Clue. They look like Col. Mustard, Mrs. Peacock and Professor Plum.





We’ve suspected for years that the judging involved shady politics, backroom deals and scores traded for favors. On Monday night, Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze of Russia won the gold medal ahead of Canada’s Jamie Sale and David Pelletier, despite the fact that the Russians plainly stumbled around the ice, while the Canadians skated flawlessly. This time, the judges have issued a result so openly thieving, and so despicably unfair, that it’s no joking matter, or even matter for suspicion. It’s a matter for investigation.




Every person in the Salt Lake Ice Center knew it, and booed, the loudest such chorus in Olympic memory. Former Olympic gold medalist Scott Hamilton knew it, and choked on his outrage, as did his colleague in the NBC booth, Sandra Bezic, who announced, “I’m embarrassed for my sport.” A number of athletes in the village knew it, and made signs supporting Sales and Pelletier. And the Canadian chief of mission knew it. Sally Rehorick, herself an Olympic figure skating judge, demanded an official inquiry, and said she was considering quitting. “I decided I didn’t want to be a judge anymore,” she said. “I was horrified.”
A day later, the universal distress continued to build. After reviewing the tape, Hamilton and Bezic were even more certain that the judging was unpardonable. “I’m trying to think of a reason or excuse, but I can’t,” Hamilton said. Both called for reform. “They’ve got to fix it,” Bezic said. This was no small thing; Hamilton and Bezic are hardly muckrakers.







It has long been the habit of ISU officials to pretend that the sport is one of such fine nuance that plebeians cannot understand its standards. Bezic and Hamilton are not plebeians, they are experts and insiders. Hamilton won the men’s gold medal in 1984, and Bezic is a choreographer who has created gold medal routines for skaters of all nationalities. So just how bad was this miscarriage of justice?
“I have never seen a competition judged this way,” Bezic says. “I’ve been around a long time. I think this is the worst.”
So was it politics or incompetence?
“Yes,” Bezic answered.





The outcry forced the ISU to do the unprecedented, and launch an inquiry of the judging — but only grudgingly. And, frankly, it’s likely to be only for show. The ISU is generally as open and forthcoming as the Kremlin. ISU General Secretary Fredi Schmid released a statement that promised nothing and reeked of territorialism, elitism and its perpetual attitude that skating is too precious to be entrusted to the layman. “The ISU — following certain reactions received by the public and media on the result of the pairs event at the Salt Lake Center last night, and also to respect the public opinion — is doing an internal assessment to monitor if the ISU rules and procedures have been respected. Any further comments will be given when appropriate.” In other words, to mollify the mob, it will go through the motions of a review — a secret one.
But let’s not keep secrets in this case. For the record, the names of the five who awarded the gold medal to the Russians: Marina Sanaia of Russia, Yang Jiasheng of China, Marie Reine Le Gougne of France, Anna Sierocka of Poland and Vladislav Petukhov of Ukraine.
“I think those five judges judged what they wanted to see,” Bezic said.
It was hard not to notice an obvious breakdown in the scoring along old East-West lines. Four of the five judges who voted for the Russians were from Russia, Ukraine, Poland and China, and then there was the French judge, who tipped the balance. Meantime, the U.S., Canadian, German and Japanese judges awarded their top marks to the Canadians.
But to Hamilton and Bezic (who is Canadian), there should never have been a split decision. The Russians made at least four visible mistakes, the most obvious coming when Sikharulidze fell out of a double axel, clearly faltering on his landing. This made it an easy decision: One couple stood up and skated cleanly, the others didn’t.



G S B TOT
USA 3 4 2 9

AUT 1 1 5 7

GER 2 3 1 6

NOR 3 3 0 6

RUS 1 2 2 5

FIN 2 1 0 3

• Complete results


“I didn’t think there would be any debate,” Hamilton says. “When it went 5-4, I really had a hard time believing it.”
There have been disputable results before in figure skating, and Hamilton and Bezic have been apologists for them. A famous case occurred in Lillehammer in 1994, when Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergie Grinkov of Russia won a hotly debated decision over Natalya Mishkutenok and Artur Demetriev. Hamilton took pains to show replays to the TV audience, explaining that while Gordeeva and Grinkov appeared to make some mistakes, the overall difficulty and quality of their program was superior.
But in this case, Hamilton saw no such mitigating factors. Instead, he saw pressure and politics at work in a secretive, Byzantine system. “The ISU has to look at the technical committees where someone can have too much power and can intimidate judges,” he says “The ISU must find a way to give every judge the chance to do what’s right.”




What the scoring suggested is that there may have been a deal: Could certain judges have thrown the gold medal to the Russian pair, because they were pressured to do so, or in exchange for preferential marks when their own countrymen skate in other events? If the French win the ice dancing in a close competition, for instance, what are we to think?
This is the true disservice the judges did: They tainted not only the pairs competition, but every other figure skating event at these Olympics. They have made it impossible to trust the medal outcomes in the sport. It all looks rigged.
“I don’t have any big answers,” Bezic says, her disillusionment palpable. “You have to still believe that nine times out of 10 the best man wins. And with such a visible and public response to this, the ISU will again pay serious attention to it.”

[Roger]

The ISU press conference was a total non-event. The spokesman just dodged questions and admitted nothing. The ISU will investigate itself but not until after the ice dancing competition in spite of the fact that the allegation is that there has been linkage between the pairs and ice dancing judging. There is clearly no mechanism in place to convene an inquiry on an urgent basis and not even an acknowlegement that there should be. Now, will anyone have any faith at all in the judging at the ice dancing? BTW there will be no Canadian judge at the ice dancing. How can such a major figure skating country be omitted? Come to think of it, what was an Australian judge doing judging the men's singles?

The mind boggles!

One way or another this experience will be the death of the ISU as we now know it - not that it will do Jamie and David any good.

Roger

[cbspock]

There was a mention in the above article that the IOC may even look into removing ice skating from the Olympics, unless the ISU does not fix the problem. I think the 'fix' was in since there is no French judge on the ice dancing panel either. What bothers me is that is all out in the open, and they are very arrogant in that they did nothing wrong. They are like a kid who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, and crumbs are at their feet and are saying "What cookie?"...GRRRR


This lack of openeness comming from the ISU is going to cloud ALL the ice skating events at this olympics. I hope that judges are sanctioned. Also, if you read the above article, it seems the 'fix' was also done to get back at the Canadians because they smoked the French team at a previous event.


-Chris

[Roger]

Various facts:
1) since the ISU won't even meet about all this until after the ice dance competition, all eyes will be on the judges at the ice dance. The Russian judge now won't dare rate too highly for the French couple. Who knows? The judging could actually end up being more to the advantage of Canada and the US
2) David's hometown in Quebec has its flags at half mast
3) in Russia, people think the Russian pair's gold was legitimate and don't like the reaction in Canada and the US. Wouldn't you know it? Canada's Prime Minister Chrétien is abroad on a good will tour trying to drum up business for Canadian business - know where? - you guessed it: Russia LOL.

Roger

[cbspock]

More stories.....

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020213/capt.1013642993.olympics_figure_skating_dsm101.jpg


http://www.msnbc.com/news/705743.asp?cp1=1


Here is another...
Pairs finish was predetermined



By BEVERLEY SMITH

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Wednesday, February 13 – Online Edition, Posted at 2:57 AM EST



Salt Lake City — The outcome of Monday's Olympic pairs skating competition was predetermined, sources have told The Globe and Mail.

Canadians Jamie Salé and David Pelletier, the reigning world champions, skated a flawless performance in the long program. They acknowledged Tuesday they thought they had won Canada's first figure skating gold medal in 42 years. Virtually everyone else watching agreed.

But the gold went to Russians Elena Berezhnaia and Anton Sikharulidze. Sources say a deal had been struck last week that tied the pairs gold to the outcome of the ice-dancing competition, which begins Friday. As reported Tuesday in The Globe, the order of the finish in ice dancing has also been pre-set with Canadians Victor Kraatz and Shae-Lynn Bourne finishing fifth.

"We've seen this deal-making in dance a lot," said Jan Ullmark, the coach for Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier. "And now it seems to have spread to the other events and that's sad. The other events are a lot easier to determine. Dance is harder."

There was widespread outrage throughout Canada and the sports world yesterday over the decision. Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier enjoyed instant celebrity, appearing on the NBC Today show and Tuesday night on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Sympathy for the pair was universal.

The International Skating Union announced Tuesday after a postmortem between the pairs judges and referee — a regular routine in skating competitions — there would be an "internal assessment" of the judging. ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta is scheduled to make his first public comments on the controversy Wednesday morning at a news conference. But this is not figure skating's first judging controversy, and few expect any substantial action.

Former IOC vice-president Richard Pound, who has called for banning ice dancing from Olympic competition unless the ISU cleans up its judging act, was part of the sellout crowd Monday night.

"I was there and watched a gold medal performance that resulted in a silver medal," the Montreal lawyer said. "It's a real shame for the kids. I've met them. On the door to their room [in the athletes village], there are five or six 6.0s stuck to it.

"They skated a flawless program and the Russians did not. I saw that; we all did."

Asked about the ISU changing the judges' decision, Mr. Pound replied, "They've created an opportunity to do so if they want."

Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier, who were seen in tears after the competition Monday night but were gracious in post-competition interviews and in a news conference yesterday, began to show some frustration last night in an interview on CBC.

Mr. Pelletier said the duo might turn professional after suggesting that they weren't sure they could receive a fair shake from judges when they defend their world championship in Nagano, Japan, next month.

"What's the deal at worlds? Are we going to win if we skate a perfect program? Has it [the outcome] been set up yet?" he asked. "'You just hope it's [competing] not a waste of time."

A well-placed figure skating source told The Globe before the Olympics began to watch judging patterns in the pairs program for evidence that the outcome would be tied to the ice-dance competition. Several sources have confirmed that deals were made for Italians Barbara Fusar-Poli and Maurizio Margaglio to win gold in ice dancing ahead of Russians Irina Lobacheva and Ilia Averbukh.

Among the judges opting for the Russian pair Monday was Marie Reine Le Gougne of France. Insiders insist this was part of the deal. French skaters Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat are apparently slated for a bronze medal in ice dancing. There isn't a French judge on the ice-dancing panel.

Judges from Russia, China, Poland and Ukraine also voted for the Russians on Monday night while those from the United States, Canada, Germany and Japan gave Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier their first-place votes.

During their broadcast Monday, British Broadcasting Corp. commentators Barry Davis and Robin Cousins, the 1980 Olympic men's champion, said Ms. Le Gougne's decision to place the Russians ahead of Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier was almost certainly connected with the ice-dance event.

Sally Rehorick, chef de mission for the Canadian team and a respected figure-skating judge, said she had no evidence of predetermined results in the dance event, but "we are asking questions."

Sources also say Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier weren't the only skaters not judged fairly in the pairs. Yang Jiasheng, the judge from China, went with the Russians ahead of the Canadians too. Sources are suggesting that the Chinese judge gave the first-place vote to Ms. Berezhnaia and Mr. Sikharulidze, hoping that the judges from the former Eastern Bloc countries would help in giving the Chinese pairs team the country's first medal in the event. All nine judges ranked Shen Xue and Zhao Hongbo third, despite a shaky performance in the long program.

"This is the worst thing that's happened in a long time in figure skating," Frank Carroll, a long-time U.S. skating coach, told Associated Press. Mr. Carroll also pointed to the French judge as a key player in what he also believes is a deal-making group.

Pairs should be easier to judge because there are specific technical tricks, such as throws, lifts, spins and twists that judges may use to determine placements. Dance is much more difficult, because it doesn't have these elements, although the International Skating Union has brought in rules since the scandal-marred 1998 Nagano Olympics that have introduced dance spins and lines of footwork upon which judges are supposed to base their opinions.

Even so, some dance judges have still been basing their decisions not on performances but on predetermined deals.

"The ISU has been preaching for the last couple of years that the performance is the object, but that did not happen [Monday night]," Mr. Ullmark said, adding he could see no case for the Russians winning. "They [the judges] can, but I obviously can't. My kids skated clean."

Ms. Rehorick said Ms. Salé and Mr. Pelletier "made the decision for the judges easy.

"It was clear Jamie and David skated better."

"There are five judges I'd like an answer from on why, just tell me why," said a distraught Lori Nichol, a Canadian who choreographed Ms. Salé's and Mr. Pelletier's programs, and who has designed a total of 11 Olympic routines here. "I want a detailed explanation of why [the judges voted this way]."


--------------------

and another...

[cbspock]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6912-2002Feb13.html


Skating Union: Ref Questioned Scores


By Barry Wilner
AP Sports Writer
Wednesday, February 13, 2002; 7:32 PM

SALT LAKE CITY –– An Olympic referee raised questions about the scores that narrowly gave the gold medal to the Russians in pairs figure skating, the head of the skating union said Wednesday

It was the latest development in what has quickly become the biggest story of the Winter Games.

Ottavio Cinquanta, International Skating Union president, said he had received "certain allegations" from American referee Ronald Pfenning, who oversaw the nine judges who scored the competition. Pfenning could have been relaying a complaint from himself or any of the judges.

ISU rules prevent Pfenning or anyone else on the judging panel from talking publicly about decisions.

Cinquanta did not provide details of the allegations. Others also had questioned the results, "but the most important is the one of the referee," he said.

"He is the coordinator of the competition."

Cinquanta also said he was embarrassed by the furor over the Russians winning despite an obvious technical error. Canada's Olympic delegation has demanded an investigation, and the union said it would conduct a rare "internal assessment."

That assessment could lead to revisions in judging, Cinquanta said.

Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze won the gold medal by the tiniest margin over Canada's Jamie Sale and David Pelletier on Monday night. They won a 5-4 split even though Sikharulidze stepped out of a double axel.

Sale and Pelletier skated cleanly and the crowd was chanting "Six! Six!" by the time they finished, begging the judges to award the Canadians a perfect score.

The Canadians got only four 5.9s for artistry compared with seven 5.9s for the Russians. Boos rained down as the marks flashed.

Cinquanta announced that the executive council of the federation would meet on Feb. 18 to discuss judging and consider any revisions to the rules. However, he reiterated that the competition was over, meaning the Russians would keep their gold medal.

The Canadian Olympic Association sent a letter Wednesday to Cinquanta seeking an independent inquiry.

"We respectfully suggest to you that in order for such a review to have credibility with the athletes, the coaches and the public, it must be independently structured," COA president Michael Chambers wrote.

Canadian officials said they don't necessarily want to overturn the decision, but would be satisfied if both teams were awarded gold medals.

Chambers said they were filing the appeal now because, "There is no time to wait, we're at the Olympic Games now and we must file the appeal now for any hope of a decision before the end of the games."

Marilyn Chidlow, president of Skate Canada, said all the allegations have come to them secondhand. "We will look for that firsthand information," she said.

Reaction differed on opposite sides of the world.

U.S. coach Frank Carroll suggested that a French judge, Marie Reine Le Gougne, voted for the Russians in a deal to avenge a loss by the French dance team to the Canadians at the Grand Prix in Canada in December.

"Does that mean now the Russian judge possibly is going to give the French dance team first" in these Olympics? Carroll asked.

The ice dancing competition begins Friday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin sent a congratulatory telegram to Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze, expressing "his sincere congratulations on the superb victory," the Kremlin press office reported Wednesday.

In Edmonton, Sale's mother, Patti Siegel, got choked up expressing appreciation for the worldwide support.

"That's what makes me cry, not just the result but the reaction of the world to it," she said.

Siegel refused to get into allegations about the judges, and when pressed, responded: "It doesn't anger me and I don't want to dwell on it. It's done."

Controversy is practically a staple of figure skating, whether it's the Tonya-Nancy brouhaha, complaints about the standings in ice dancing or a ban on "undignified" moves.

But this one has really struck a chord with fans and skating insiders – prompting calls for reforms.

"This is the worst thing that's happened to figure skating in a long time," Carroll said. "I can understand where, watching that, if the International Olympic Committee said, 'We don't want figure skating in the Olympics anymore,' who's going to argue with that?"

The IOC isn't giving figure skaters the boot yet, but it is "concerned," said Francois Carrard, its director general.

"The ultimate responsibility for the results," he said, "lies with the ISU."
-----------------------------------------------
..and the scandal grows!!!

-Chris

[Roger]

Further news:

Apparently, it was Ronald Pfenning who oversaw the nine judges who claimed the French judge had complained she had been compelled by her association to favour the Russian pair. However, the French judge has since denied it.

See:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/news/2002/02/13/ioc_controversy_ap/

Meanwhile the Canadian Olympic Association has called for a review of the judges' ratings and has suggested that a second gold medal could be awarded to Salé and Pelletier.

Roger

[Roger]

Here are this morning's developments:

The Canadian federal government has become involved. The Secretary of State for Amateur Sport has expressed his concern to the IOC. This is heavy stuff!!

Yesterday we learned that the judges' referee, Ronald Pfenning, had overheard the French judge complaining she had been compelled by the French Olympic Association to favour the Russian pair but she denied it later. Now the head of the French Olympic Association says they did exert pressure on this judge. Have they no shame?

Anyway, what does this all mean? It means that not only is it certain the French judge violated Olympic ethics by awarding marks on the basis of influence and politics, but now she reveals herself to be a liar as well. It means the French judge's marks should be removed from the tally. This of course means that the judges are divided four against four as to who should have won the gold medal. It means therefore that serious consideration should be given to granting the request of the Canadian Olympic Association and Skate Canada that a gold medal be awarded to Jamie Salé and David Pelletier while at the same time allowing the Russian pair to keep theirs. If you think this is impossible, consider this has already been done in Olympic history. Again a Canadian athlete was involved. Boy! Are Canadians unlucky or what?

To read about how this all played out once before for the synchronized swimmer Sylvie Fréchette, go here:

http://www.tsn.ca/profile/

Roger

[cbspock]

This is really putting a tarnish on this Olympics. First the scandals by the council that picks the host city, taking bribes, now corrupt judges. It was mentioned on one of our news talk shows, that the Canadians are now receiving the same treatment the USA was subjected to during the cold war Olypmics. The French have also critized the Canadians. (I will post the article when I get home) Out of the two groups, the Canadians are acting with much more honor and class than the French have been.



-Chris

[Roger]

Jacques Rogge, President of the IOC, has now been quoted as saying that awarding a second gold medal ia a possibility and could be a way out of the crisis. But the idea has not been discussed officially.

Roger

[cbspock]

I think that is an awful solution...the russians should be stripped of the medal and disqualified for the actions of their judges.

-Chris

[Roger]

Chris, the Russian pair did nothing wrong. They should not be penalized for the action of judges. Also if the French judge's marks are taken away, that leaves four judges supporting the Russions and four supporting the Canadians. I think this is not a perfect solution but is the best under the circumstances. Anyway, it hasn't happened yet and may not.

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Chris, the Russian pair did nothing wrong. They should not be penalized for the action of judges. Also if the French judge's marks are taken away, that leaves four judges supporting the Russions and four supporting the Canadians. I think this is not a perfect solution but is the best under the circumstances. Anyway, it hasn't happened yet and may not.

Roger

Yes they should, it would make people think twice, if the team gets punished too. The judges should definitly get censured or banned..if nothing happens to the team, atleast the judges. I know they will find the weaselly way out of this, so everyone saves face :(

-chris

[Roger]

Chris, do you realize that there have been 36 posts on this topic. FV submitted one to do her usual thing and lighten the mood (she succeeded). All the rest came from you and me. I would say maybe we should continue our discussion by private email but I see this thread has been read 178 times so maybe someone out there is interested besides us. If so, they are a silent bunch!...LOL

Roger

[byrdman]

I agree that awarding a second gold medal to the Canadian pair would be the best solution. I personally feel that the Canadians gave one of the most breathtaking performances I have seen. I have also watched them give a number of interviews, and they are beautiful, charming, graceful, and generous. They certainly have taken the "high road" in this dispute.

By the way, does anyone else see a strong resemblence, both physically and in personality, between Jamie Sale and Shania?:)

Al

[cbspock]

Originally posted by byrdman

By the way, does anyone else see a strong resemblence, both physically and in personality, between Jamie Sale and Shania?:)

Al


YEP!! I just have not said anything...but lets take a look....


Shania....
http://www.shania.nu/gallery/winterbreak/winterbreak28.jpg


especially when I saw Jamie in that red jacket....
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020214/capt.1013661523.olympics_pairs__controversy_oly125.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20020214/i/2684870702.jpg


-Chris

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Chris, do you realize that there have been 36 posts on this topic. FV submitted one to do her usual thing and lighten the mood (she succeeded). All the rest came from you and me. I would say maybe we should continue our discussion by private email but I see this thread has been read 178 times so maybe someone out there is interested besides us. If so, they are a silent bunch!...LOL

Roger


Yeah!!! LOL!!! It's pretty fun!! I suggested to FV she change the name of the category to "current events"


Whatever the solution to the problem..as long as the Canadians get the gold.


So who is watching the judges tonight??? lol

-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by byrdman

By the way, does anyone else see a strong resemblence, both physically and in personality, between Jamie Sale and Shania?:)

Al

Yeah, I noticed it too but also didn't say anything. I think I'm just a sucker for cheekbones like that...LOL

Roger

[cbspock]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12190-2002Feb14.html


'All Federations Are Involved'
A U.S. Coach Alleges Widespread Corruption

By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 15, 2002; Page D01



SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 14 -- A former Russian Olympic medalist who is now a U.S. figure skating coach today launched an unusual verbal attack on figure skating, saying the sport was dirty and rife with corruption and alleging that all national skating federations pressure judges and attempt to fix the results of competitions.

"All federations are involved, not only the Russians," said Russian-born Alexander Zhulin, a 1994 Olympic silver medalist who now coaches U.S. ice dancers Naomi Lang and Peter Tchernyshev. "The Canadians are involved, the French are involved, the Italians are involved. Everybody is trying to bring their couples, their skaters, into first place. Everybody is trying to keep the votes for their own country. . . .

"I think all judges from their home countries feel pressure from the person who is president, the people in the high posts," he said. "It's like in life -- some people are strong, and some people are weak, and [the weak judges] just follow what their federation says. That's corruption. . . . It's so dirty."

Zhulin's remarks came hours before the men's long program, in which American Tim Goebel won a bronze medal by building upon his upstart performance in Tuesday's short program. Goebel finished behind two Russians, gold medalist Alexei Yagudin and silver medalist Evgeni Plushenko.

Zhulin's words resonated in a sport in which coaches and athletes rarely publicly condemn the judges who control their fates -- especially before competition gets underway. His diatribe, uttered calmly and in measured tones shortly after his dance team practiced today, came a day after it was reported that a French Olympic official said the French judge in Monday's controversial pairs final had felt pressured to cast her vote for the Russian team, which won the gold medal by a 5-4 margin.

Today, the official, French figure skating federation head Didier Gailhaguet, said his words were misinterpreted, but the Associated Press stood by the story.

The controversy surrounding the result of the pairs competition has ignited an international uproar that has been exacerbated by developments since: The referee overseeing the judging of that event filed a written complaint about a judge who admitted to feeling pressured to vote a certain way; the International Skating Union began an inquiry into the allegations; and the International Olympic Committee demanded a hasty resolution to the problem.

With insinuations about vote-trading and payoffs ballooning, the result has been the biggest scandal since the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan saga that played out at the 1994 Winter Games in Lillehammer, Norway, and an endless stream of questions: Can the sport be cleaned up? Has it lost its credibility? Should a second gold medal be awarded to the Canadian pairs skaters? Will the ice-dancing competition, which concludes Monday, be fairly judged?

Many of those questions will linger at least through Monday, when the ISU's 11-member council assembles here.

Despite the IOC's insistence that the process move quickly, the ISU has not moved up the date of the meeting.

IOC Director General Francois Carrard today reiterated the IOC's desire for a "speedy resolution" and said the IOC believed ISU officials were working on the problem. Carrard said the IOC would not consider action on the case -- such as discarding the result of the French judge and awarding a second gold medal based on a 4-4 judges decision -- until the organization had received an official report from the ISU.

The German ice dance team of Kati Winkler and Rene Lohse said they nearly lost their motivation to compete here after watching the pairs final Monday, in which Russians Elena Berazhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze won the gold medal over Canadians Jamie Sale and David Pelletier -- despite winning the support of the crowd, television announcers and various coaches and athletes who watched.

"Our sport, on Monday, it was wrong," Winkler said today. "I was sad for the Canadians, because they deserved the gold medal. . . . This was our question: Why do we skate? Why do we do this if the results come out like this?"

There are mixed feeling in the figure skating community about how Monday's result and the ensuing controversy will affect the ice dancing competition. A number of skaters and officials speculated that the widening controversy and intense scrutiny would force judges to be on their best behavior during this event -- even though ice dancing historically has been beset by more puzzling results and allegations of misconduct than any other figure skating discipline because of the extremely subjective nature of the judging involved. Ice dancers are required to perform fewer specified elements than singles or pairs skaters.

"We were really worried after Monday," Winkler said. "But now that this has come out, the judges have to be really careful what they do. Now, I don't think [the results] are set for ice dancing."

Still, ice dancers say they have been thrown off by the controversy.

"We can only control our performance," said Canadian Shae-Lynn Bourne, who along with Victor Kraatz are considered medal contenders. "There are so many events going on, not just figure skating, that can easily distract us. We are trying to keep our focus."

A number of prominent coaches have openly discussed unsubstantiated allegations of a vote-swapping deal between French and Russian officials in which the top Russians in the pairs final allegedly received the French vote in exchange for Russia's support of the top French team in the ice dance final. A French official has denied the involvement of French skating officials in any such deal. The French judge in Monday's pairs final, Marie-Reine Le Gougne, declined to comment. Russian officials have not commented publicly.

Zhulin, the coach, speculated that the scandal might cause the judges to compensate during this weekend's competition, attempting to dissuade the public that corruption exists by doing the unexpected.

But even that, he said, could have severe repercussions for the skaters. In reference to the rumors of a deal between Russia and France, Zhulin said the judges would be "in big trouble if the French will win. I feel sorry for the French [Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat] now.

"Maybe the Russian [judge] will be afraid to [give] them high marks. Because of the huge pressure now on the Russian federation, even if they feel Anissina and Peizerat deserve to win, they will probably put them second. This is horrible, too."

Judges are forbidden from making comments about competitions. The makeup of the judging panel will not be released until Friday, but a Russian is expected to be included.

Zhulin said confusion over results is commonplace in figure skating. He said the Olympic Games were 50 percent more politicized than the world championships or other events because of their prominence. He said for years rumors have abounded after Olympic competitions as to why skaters finished in the order they did.

Zhulin said after the 1994 Winter Games, in which he and ice dance partner Maia Usova finished behind fellow Russians Oksana Grishuk and Evgeny Platov, he was told the result was "because somebody promised something to one of the judges in the men's category."

Added Zhulin: "That's what I heard. We can never find out."

-----------------

Seems a lot needs to be done to get ice skating's credibility back, that's if they had any to begin with.

-Chris

[Roger]

Here is the latest development in this incredible saga: IOC president Jacques Rogge will make an announcement today. It is not known if it will be about giving a second gold to the Canadian pair or if he will address the mess the ice dancing is now in. Either way, it evident the IOC sees urgency in this situation even if the ISU doesn't.

It is hard to have any faith in the judging of the ice dancing. The article above states the makeup of the judging panel is not yet known. Other reports differ. They say there will be a Russian judge. How can this be since one of the allegations has it that this is the judge who did a deal with the French judge? How can the French competitors' judging be perceived as fair if there is a Russian judge? Reports say there will be no Canadian judge. How can the Canadian couples have any confidence in the marking?

The French olympic association is in disrepute. The head of that body now denies he pressured the French judge but another judge has now claimed she heard the French judge complain about it. The French judge herself has now reportedly fled back to France, thus demonstrating she is not only corrupt and a liar but a coward as well.

This furor has now reached the highest levels. Canada's Prime Minister is in Russia, as chance would have it, on a good will trip trying to increase trade between Canada and Russia. According to reports, even Chrétien and Putin traded opinions on the skating brou-ha-ha.

Roger

[cbspock]

What a mess!!!!!


I heard the same story here before leaving for work. They mentioned that the judges won't be known until later today. What they probably need to do, is keep the FRENCH, RUSSIAN, and CANADIAN judges off the panel. This way, the french and russians can't complain that the canadians are out for revenge, and the Canadians can't say anything about the French and Russian collusion.


I bet the judges were breathing a sigh of relief that the outcome last night was very clear.

-Chris

[Roger]

THEY DID IT!! THEY GAVE THE GOLD TO JAMIE AND DAVID!!!

They also suspended the French judge. They did not change the composition of the judging panel for the ice dancing if I understood the press conference correctly. Their investigations are not over at the ISU but they won't talk about it. As I said before though the ISU will never be the same again. Unfortunately the needed changes in the ISU probably can't be put in place in time for the World's competition in one month.

BTW the French Olympic Association has now denied that the French judge has fled to France.

In my opinion none of this corrective action would have happened if it hadn't been for the enraged public opinion in the United States, at least not for a long time. In the Sylvie Fréchette case, it took 18 months to give her the gold medal she had been cheated out of, by which time of course the rest of the world was not watching and Sylvie lost a chance to capitalize on her gold medal money-wise. This demonstrates the power of the United States in the world and I thank them/you for your strong sense of justice.

Roger

[Roger]

My God! After the IOC press conference, CBC just reshowed Jamie's and David's performance in the long program. They were so beautiful! I sat and cried knowing now how it finally turned out. Un vrai tour de force technique et artistique!


Roger

[Roger]

Okay, I will stop posting soon on this topic. CBC just interviewed Jamie and David. What a classy pair! They said they are happy to get the gold (of course) but really their greatest statisfaction they had already achieved in knowing they did their best. They bear no ill will but feel the system has to be cleaned up. They are worried that all the attention on them is taking the spotlight off other Canadian achievements. Today for example, Beckie Scott won the silver in cross country. They know they live in the most beautiful country in the world and appreciate the love of the most beautiful people in the world. (Don't expect them to say that on US TV!...LOL) They are proud to be Canadian. What more could they say?

Roger

[cbspock]

Well, it looks like the fairytale ending....didn't last long....the Russians weigh in...and guess what...it is the USA mass media's fault.........

Russia Weighs in on Skate Scandal
Fri Feb 15, 2:43 PM ET
By DEBORAH SEWARD, Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW - The Kremlin entered the pairs skating controversy Friday, with the deputy prime minister deploring the scandal that has taken the luster off Russia's victory in Salt Lake City.


Valentina Matviyenko, the most senior woman in the Russian government, said she was heading for Salt Lake City on Saturday "to support the moral spirit of our team and hang out with the youngsters."

Matviyenko said she was disgusted by the controversy over the gold won by Russian pairs skaters Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze. Silver finishers Jamie Sale and David Pelletier of Canada contested the judges' 5-4 vote in favor of the Russians.

In an extraordinary development Friday, the Canadian pair was awarded a gold after the skating union said it uncovered misconduct by a French judge. The Russians will be allowed to keep their gold as well.

"It's a disgraceful fuss," Matviyenko said before Friday's development. "The International Olympic Committee (news - web sites) should get to the root of it and not allow American mass media and amateurs give marks to our skaters," Matviyenko told a news conference, the Interfax news agency reported.

The controversy has received wide attention in the Russian press, which for the most part has provided factual coverage, tinged with just a touch of bitterness over what has been perceived in Russia as the Canadians' unwillingness to accept defeat gracefully and allegations the Russians may somehow have exerted pressure on some of the judges.

Izvestia on Friday criticized Canadian media for allegedly running a smear campaign based on unidentified sources aimed at discrediting the judges who voted in favor of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze.

The Kommersant daily, in its account of the events in Salt Lake City, said the Canadians' complaint would likely lead to reform of the judging system.

"And that will hardly be favorable to the Russians," the newspaper concluded.

Many people in Russia long have believed that international judges are against them. That feeling has faded somewhat since the end of the Cold War but is still perceptible.

The Trud daily called the scandal a "soap opera in a glass of dirty water," saying that "one has to be able to lose as well. Unfortunately, the Canadian Olympic Association has not learned that."

Trud quoted Valentin Piseyev, president of the Russian Skating Federation, as saying, "We have not lost at the Olympic Games (news - web sites) in pairs skating since 1964. That irritates many people."

In an interview with Trud, Piseyev denied that the Russian Federation had exerted pressure on any judges.

"That's absolutely silly," Piseyev said.

"You have to be able to honorably accept defeat," Piseyev added. "And if you haven't learned it yet, then learn it."
---------------------------------

Roger, I think the Russians just called the Canadians dishonorable, as well as the USA. Notice the french coward of a judge ran all the way home back to France. (guess we should have expected that move). I can tell you some in our media are all over the French, bringing up what "honor" they have. I'll send you them in email...it would not be appropriate here.


-Chris

[Roger]

*sigh* Whatever happened to the idea of good will in the Olympics?! The Russians are actually lucky the ISU didn't decide to include the marks from the substitute judge (from the Czech republic) in place of the dismissed French judge. The Czech judge gave the Canadians higher marks so the Russians would have had to hand back their gold medals and accept the silver!

Roger

[cbspock]

Well, the Canadians have shown class and honor during this whole mess, not much can be said about the French and the Russians.


-Chris

[Roger]

There was great joy in David's hometown this evening. They organized an impromptu parade throughout the town.

Seems to me that French judge will never be able to judge again. This puts her in a position of having nothing to lose so she will soon realize that although ISU judges are forbidden to speak to the media, there is really nothing stopping her from doing so any more. Of course if she really is "fragile", she may not be up to it but if she is capable of speaking about it, what she has to say will be interesting. I'm sure she is just the tip of the iceberg and will not want to continue bearing the brunt of world criticism alone. She can implicate lots of others and next thing you know that will get others talking too so maybe the whole house of cards will fall down.

What we need is an entirely new system of judging. In future, as many as possible of the judges should be ex-skaters. They would be less likely to skew results according to nationality because they remember how it was to compete and would not want to cheat today's skaters. They should break the link to specific national skating associations. They should balance individual competition judges according to continent only. In the ice dance there are no North American judges. What chance do Canadian and US danceres stand?

Roger

[cbspock]

The problem is that the judges are part of the ISU, they are not independant.

So, how was the ice dancing? I missed it.


-Chris

[FV]

Now that the Canadian pair was given the Gold Medal...watch out for the new champion who is training in Santa Rosa, CA for the cartoons olympics...:D
http://www.srfsc.org/graphics/BlueBanner1.gif

[cbspock]

Canadian figure skaters Jamie Sale (R) and David Pelletier (L) hug their team chief, Sally Rehorick, during a press conference given at the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic Winter Games, February 15, 2002. The couple, who were awarded the silver medal in the controversial judging of the pairs competition last February 13 in which Russian rivals were given the gold, will be awarded gold as well after the votes of the French judge were cancelled. Photo by Gary Hershorn/Reuters

THE REAL GOLD MEDALISTS!!!
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20020215/i/2416394273.jpg

[cbspock]

They will be presented the medals before the Woman's singles skate begins next week. Feb 21st i think they said.


CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013814722.olympics_figure_skating_apch102.jpg


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013814426.olympics_figure_skating_apch103.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013810088.olympics_pairs_controversy_oly129.jpg


Is that laugh just a Canadian trait???
http://www.shania.nu/gallery/misc/misc07.jpg


LOL!!!
-Chris

[Roger]

Okay, here's the latest. It is reported that the male half of the Russian pair, Anton Sikharulidze, is outraged at the IOC decision and has said he wants a skate-off to see who is really the best in the world. Others have suggested that the Russians would like more attention, endorsements and money-making opportunities and this would be a way to that end. So now that's what the Olympics are all about, is it?

See:
http://www.ctvnews.com/content/sitesections/1/845640.asp

Roger

[byrdman]

Chris, Thanks for posting those great pictures.:) :)

Al

[cbspock]

Originally posted by cbspock
They will be presented the medals before the Woman's singles skate begins next week. Feb 21st i think they said.


CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013814722.olympics_figure_skating_apch102.jpg


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013814426.olympics_figure_skating_apch103.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020215/capt.1013810088.olympics_pairs_controversy_oly129.jpg


Is that laugh just a Canadian trait???
http://www.shania.nu/gallery/misc/misc07.jpg


LOL!!!
-Chris




CORRECTION....the medal ceremony will take place tomorrow, before the Ice Dancing.

---------
Roger, maybe if the Russians did the honorable thing at the medal ceremony and given the gold to the Canadians, they would be getting the publicity.

I also think, the Olympics have always been about politics and commercialism, remember the EAST vs WEST during the Cold War. All the talk about the Olympics being above them, has always been just lip service.


-Chris

[cbspock]

CHAMPIONS
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020218/capt.1014006148.olympics_figure_skating_slic131.jpg

[Roger]

Boy! You were quick with that photo, Chris!

Did you notice the Russian girl was not too anxious to hold Jamie's hand? Did you notice David could scarcely contain his disdain for the head of the ISU?...LOL Well, I think it was asking a lot of these two pairs to be quite that chummy with each other but I'm impressed they made such an effort. As far as I am concerned, all four were exemplifying the Olympic spirit so lacking in the judges.

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Did you notice the Russian girl was not too anxious to hold Jamie's hand? Did you notice David could scarcely contain his disdain for the head of the ISU?...LOL Well, I think it was asking a lot of these two pairs to be quite that chummy with each other but I'm impressed they made such an effort. As far as I am concerned, all four were exemplifying the Olympic spirit so lacking in the judges.

Roger


I caught the tail end of it, so I will have to watch the re-runs, but what I saw, definitely showed what you stated Roger, the true Olympic spirit. I hope that the ISU and the IOC, get their houses in order.

-Chris

[Roger]

More on the story that just won't die:

Marie-Reine Le Gougne, the French judge who admitted being pressured by the French federation to favour the Russian pair, now says she was lying when she said that. In fact, she says, she favoured the Russians because she thought they were better. Doesn't she realize that if someone claims to have lied about something, she has no credibility left? Why should we believe her now?

I can't help but notice Wayne Gretsky's outburst on TV. He complained emotionally about the double standard whereby if Canadians play rough, everyone calls us hooligans whereas when the Czechs played rough, the refs and everyone else ignored it. Gretsky also complained everyone outside of Canada wants the Canadian team to lose. This last statement is ridiculous! With regard to his first statement, he should have taken his cue from Jamie Salé and David Pelletier. They earned the admiration of the world by not being bitter and not complaining. Gretsky may have been The Great One on the ice but as a spokesman for the Canadian hockey team at the Olympics, he has no class. One the headlines in the Ottawa Citizen called him a cry-baby.

Roger

[cbspock]

Anyone else notice the Russian judge tonight scoring the American skaters very low.

-Chris

[Roger]

Originally posted by Roger
More on the story that just won't die:

Marie-Reine Le Gougne, the French judge who admitted being pressured by the French federation to favour the Russian pair, now says she was lying when she said that. In fact, she says, she favoured the Russians because she thought they were better. Doesn't she realize that if someone claims to have lied about something, she has no credibility left? Why should we believe her now?

I can't help but notice Wayne Gretsky's outburst on TV. He complained emotionally about the double standard whereby if Canadians play rough, everyone calls us hooligans whereas when the Czechs played rough, the refs and everyone else ignored it. Gretsky also complained everyone outside of Canada wants the Canadian team to lose. This last statement is ridiculous! With regard to his first statement, he should have taken his cue from Jamie Salé and David Pelletier. They earned the admiration of the world by not being bitter and not complaining. Gretsky may have been The Great One on the ice but as a spokesman for the Canadian hockey team at the Olympics, he has no class. One the headlines in the Ottawa Citizen called him a cry-baby.

Roger

Another headline refers to him as Whine Gretsky...LOL

Roger

[Roger]

Their agent confirms that Jamie Salé and David Pelletier have turned down a 7-figure payday to hold a skate-off against their Russian rivals. "They don`t want to turn this into a Nancy vs. Tonya thing."

See:

http://www.canoe.com/2002GamesFigureSkatingArchive/0221_can-sun.html

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
Their agent confirms that Jamie Salé and David Pelletier have turned down a 7-figure payday to hold a skate-off against their Russian rivals. "They don`t want to turn this into a Nancy vs. Tonya thing."

See:

http://www.canoe.com/2002GamesFigureSkatingArchive/0221_can-sun.html


Good for them :)

-Chris

[cbspock]

Well, they didn't skate to Shania, but they were awesome..can't wait to see them on the ice tour circuit.

-Chris

[Roger]

It has just been announced that Jamie and David have signed a deal to promote a new Crest product called Whitestrips. The dollar amount of the contract was not announced but is thought to be in 7 figures. They are expected to sign other endorsement deals in the near future. Other Canadian medal winners are also expected to annouce promotion deals but they will make far less money as they are just not known in the lucrative US market. By way of contrast, Michelle Kwan, the US women's skater who won bronze at Salt Lake City, was paid about $6 million last year for her endorsements and is expected to sign more deals in the future.

Roger

[cbspock]

Originally posted by Roger
It has just been announced that Jamie and David have signed a deal to promote a new Crest product called Whitestrips. The dollar amount of the contract was not announced but is thought to be in 7 figures. They are expected to sign other endorsement deals in the near future. Other Canadian medal winners are also expected to annouce promotion deals but they will make far less money as they are just not known in the lucrative US market. By way of contrast, Michelle Kwan, the US women's skater who won bronze at Salt Lake City, was paid about $6 million last year for her endorsements and is expected to sign more deals in the future.

Roger

Roger, I saw them last night on our local news, they were here in NYC, and they talked about the CREST deal. They were interviwed at the ICE rink in Rockefeller Center. Also they want to do stuff with kids. Asked about if marriage was in their future, David had a great "shania like" answer, "well, since we are standing on the ice, we don't bring our personal life into the rink".

-Chris